rear suspension option

[race81]

anyone running a 4-bar left,spring clamped, rh z-link spring on tube,with a fifth arm and spring with shock mounted on it? thinking of trying this combo next year and wondering if its worth the effort?

[mbaker76]

Not that somebody isnt doing it but i personally dont know anybody running a lift arm in a mod. Im not sure it would work very well on slick with the small tires, especially with the LR clamped up. I would like to try it though, just to see what its like. I think the pullbar helps pull the car up on the bars and creates the instant traction needed to help get the car going in the middle of the corner, whereas the late models have a big enough tire they dont need it. Although with the shallow angles i see on pullbars lately, im not sure they are much different than a lift arm would be.

[profab00]

Beg to differ but I have been on a torque arm for 8 years and would not consider anything else unless I could not afford anything other than straight numbered shocks.

[shocks]

you might get away with the fifth arm w/ coilover setup on a momentum track that doesn't go to complete dust in the features, but I don't personally see that setup being able to produce traction as quickly and efficiently as a pullbar setup. Pretty much all chassis builders agree to this as they are all(at least 99%) using pullbars to help build traction on the throttle. The ones that are using a fifth arm are using it for a braking device, which in my opinion is just unneccessary unsprung weight to the car.

I could be wrong, and odds are that somewhere, somebody is making a fifth arm setup work, but they're definitely in the minority, and I've yet to see such a setup anywhere near the front of a big show (ex. USMTS event).

But again, I think the effectiveness of a pullbar on modified tires is pretty obvious to anybody who looks at any of the top chassis builders' cars.

[profab00]

Chassis such as Mastersbilt, Rocket, Warrior, GRT, Bloomquist Chassis, Barry Wright all race on momentum tracks? It's no big deal to me, I hope all mods continue to run a jerk rod.

[shocks]

Chassis such as Mastersbilt, Rocket, Warrior, GRT, Bloomquist Chassis, Barry Wright all race on momentum tracks? It's no big deal to me, I hope all mods continue to run a jerk rod.

can you please show me where I said anything about late model chassis with lift bars only being good on momentum tracks?

[shocks]

What I do know is that TRE, Hughes, Dirt Works, Pierce, Skyrocket, Shaw, GRT, Allen, Hoffman, D&M, etc, etc, etc, all use pullbars over lift bars when it comes to aborbing torque from being on the throttle.

If lift bars were that great on mods, then some of those guys would be using them as those cars make up the majority of the modified market. We've ran tons of USMTS shows, NCRA shows, etc....never seen anyone running a lift bar that was at the front of the pack in one of these shows. Nor have we ever been outran locally by anyone on a lift bar setup.

I know from the LR spring location thread that you feel mods and late models are the same, however I disagree completely. The companies that build both modifieds and late models obviously disagree as well, judging by their current offerings. In my OPINION, saying that they are the same because they're 4 link is like saying all front suspensions are the same because they have ball joints.

so, respectfully (as I can tell from reading your other posts that your not an idiot), we'll stick with a pullbar on a modified until we're allowed to run as much rubber (amongst other things) as a late model. If a lift bar works for you that's great. But I would appreciate it if you will refrain from twisting what I say to try to make me look wrong.

[profab00]

First and foremost, I didn't mean to step on your toes. If your interpretation is that I attempted to twist your opinion to something it wasn't then I apoligize. I didn't mean it to come across that way. My statement was intended to address the racer questioning the torque arm and whether it would work. It does. I build my own chassis and have ran both and the torque arm actually gives up nothing and might actually be faster on most surfaces. It however is not as forgiving on some types of conditions and the driving style used is somewhat different with the torque arm to get the most out of it. This is why in my opinion the chassis manufacturers opt for the jerk rod.

[shocks]

no hard feelings here. I'm here to learn and share information just like yourself i'm sure. I'd be interested to see what it takes to make the 5th arm work, as our endeavors at making it work weren't very successful. It was awesome on big, heavy tracks, but we didn't care for it on dry slick stop and go's. Where we normally have an abundance of forward bite, very quickly, we were not successful in getting the lift bar to build bite quickly. The 5th arm did give some positive results on corner entry on dry slick, but we couldn't build the bite coming out to justify ditching the pullbar setup.

I respect anyone who takes the time to learn about, design, and build their own chassis. Especially with as technical as modified chassis have become. I'm working on a somewhat "home made" chassis of my own right now. Some of the things that i'm doing are some what "out of the box" so we'll see how it works in time. Most of the changes I'm making to the original design are in the front suspension, as I feel that is where modifieds are most lacking. It may be a complete flop, but i'm not really out anything other than some time if such is the case.

[profab00]

Will be at PIR the rest of this month and then to KLMS next month. Hope you can make it down and I'm not hard to find based off my moniker. Come see me and we'll talk.