lift bar vs pull bar
Between the 2 options seeing some guys using the pull bars on 4 bar cars is there any advantage or disadvantage with the pull bars and would this allow you to keep your car flater to the track and still maintain good foward bite. Is there any opinions to this.
Hopefully one of the smart guys can answer that for you, but if not I can tell you the difference between the two one my swing arm car. I just don't know how much of this info would apply to a 4bar car. Shoot me a pm if you want what little info I can offer.
Damn thang bout the internet, can't run and you can't hide from what you said. Gave more away than I meant to and probably that thread showed me more the intellect of certain individuals on this forum by what they gained from my posting. Please, as Bizkit would polk fun at you Billet, don't get the bighead.
OOPS,......Didn't mean to let secrets out.LOL (you have to admit, I pointed him towards a ton of info!)
I didn't follow that, especially the last line?
Originally Posted by profab00
I was attempting to give you a back handed compliment for taking my info and splaining to folks not only what I said but also you gave them more info on my chassis like where my torque arm was mounted and a little more in depth details about the amount of wedge I run..........and you don't know me nor my car.
Ok, I thought that might be what you meant but by the wording I wasn't sure.
I was just making educated (slightly) guesses on what I would do if I was going to try it.
I still haven't seen anyone try it or make it work other then that one guy which isn't running a mod anymore. Then again I don't look at alot of Mods, either.
One thing I will say to you Billet, we agree on a jerk rod versus a lift bar. However, if one is clamped on the front of the axle on the left rear, a jerk rod works real nicely with that. Still, I do not believe it is better than a torque arm with the spring mounted elsewhere on the left rear. Also, sometimes my backwards humor needs cifering, never take my humor the wrong way.
Disclaimer: I am speaking more in theory than experience.
My opinion is the 4bar(4 forward mounted control bars) - pull rod combination is hard to set up and track conditions are rare that it would work.
The torque arm and the pull rod have the same job. They control axle rotation or pinion angle and they provide anti-squat or lift in the rear during acceleration.
The lift the torque arm provides is directly proportional to its length and the torque applied. It has the advantage of a shock and spring. The amount of anti-squat is linear and adjusted by it's length. In addition to the lift bar the 4 control bars add lift by their angle. The more the car rises the more angle in the bars the more anti-squat the more the car rises. This is a progressive setup and the suspension is sometimes in maximum extension.
The pull rod provides lift by the angle its mounted. Determining the amount is similar to the old 3-link suspension. You draw a line through the connecting points of the pull rod toward the front and then draw a line representing the average or the 4 control bars. Where the two lines intersect would be the equivalent point of lift as if it were a lift bar. The more angle in the bars the closer to the rear the intersecting point and the more the anti-squat. As the car rises, the angle in the pull rod diminishes and the point of intersection moves toward the front of the car and thus the anti-squat diminishes making it regressive. It's as if the car has a very short torque arm on the low power tracks and a long arm for the high power tracks.
On the z-link the progressive forward bars are neutralized by the regressive rearward bars making them linear. When you switch to 4 forward bars with their combined progression you balance the regressiveness of the pull rod and your car may behave as if it has a short torque arm that gets shorter as more power is applied.
An advantage of the pull rod is that you can make a dynamic wedge adjustment by moving it left or right in the car.
I would first try it on a smooth, consistent, dry (slow) track. You might try keeping the intersecting point back for forward bite and moving it forward closer to the COG to keep it flat.