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Thread: side bite / forward drive

  1. #1
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    Feb 2007
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    Default side bite / forward drive

    I'm asking one of those stupid ?'s but I'm trying to understand the two. What does side bite do, and foward drive do. I'm sure I know but just want to be 100% sure. How do you tell which of the two a chassis might need.

    Thanks Guys

  2. #2
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    Side bite is usually a term to describe lateral traction or sideways traction of the tires. This is just the traction of the tire to not slip sideways or 90 degrees to the cars direction.


    Forward bite is the ability of the rear tires to drive the car forward or accelleration traction.

    Note: "Loose off the corner" and "no forward bite" ARE NOT the same thing, although commonly discribed as the same. The difference is "loose off the corner" can be caused by wheel spin because the rear tires don't have any lateral traction because the tires are spinning. Actual "loose off the corner" is when the back end of the car turns to much with out wheel spin as in too much stagger, rollsteer, or wieght on the RR verses the LR.

  3. #3
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    Muscatine, Iowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    ...........

    Note: "Loose off the corner" and "no forward bite" ARE NOT the same thing, although commonly discribed as the same. The difference is "loose off the corner" can be caused by wheel spin because the rear tires don't have any lateral traction because the tires are spinning. Actual "loose off the corner" is when the back end of the car turns to much with out wheel spin as in too much stagger, rollsteer, or wieght on the RR verses the LR.
    Alright Billet, how 'bout letting me put you on the hotseat...........

    In general, what would be your suggestion for correcting a 'loose off the corner" condition

    vs.

    a "No forward bite" condition?

    4Bar/4Bar, LR behind/Shock in Front, RR Coilover in front

    TIA
    Crewchief #21 Modified
    Hansen Motorsports






  4. #4
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    Loose off the corner is 90% of the time caused by wheel spin but if it is one of those times it is not, then you or however your asking for advise needs to know this to answer correctly.

    Increasing traction on any given tire is most easily done by adding wieght to that tire eithr statically or dynamically. So in the case of no forward bite you can increase the static rear percent or do something to dynamically transfer more wieght to the rear tire under acelleration. Doing this dymanically can be done by getting the car to hike up which removes wieght from the LF corner of the car and transfers that wieght to the rear tires. Then there is anti-squat or moving the COG of the car higher which transfers more weight front to back under acelleration. And of course a softer foot.

    Loose off the corner (not caused by wheel spin), is most commonly noticed when running the bottom of the track and you can't keep it on the bottom (under acelleration) coming off the corner to get under the person in front of you, you basically chase the back end of the car with the fornt end up the track. This is usualy due to too much rollsteer or to a too heavily loaded RR and not enough LR bite. There are some many things that could cause this it is hard to give a simple common fix, but the most common is loose rollsteer.

    This will sound odd but, just adding LR bite actually doesn't increase forward bite persay. What it will do is to help hold the car straight with wheel spin more then if the car had less static LR bite. If you think about this it will make sense. Picture that the back of the car has 1000# of weight so you have a 1000# of wieght of the rear tires for traction. If we had a 100# of LR bite then the LR would weight 550# and the RR would weight 450# if we increased the LR bite to 400#, we would then have 700# LR and 300# RR but you still only have 1000# available to the rear tires for traction. The 400# bite car will try to track straighter under wheel spin but isn't necessarily go forward any better but may allow more wheel spin before the car tries to go sideways. This can be deceptive because the car won't get sideways as easly and therefore not srub of speed as easily and may be sensed as better forward bite.

    That above was excluding wieght transfer and assuming both wheels have the same traction from the track (unlike a stripe of moisture at the bottom of the track you can stick the LR in).

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007
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    What is a too heavily loaded RR?

    What is enough bite, I usually run 140-150.

  6. #6
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    It is just what it sounds like: When the RR has so much load on it that it out drives the LR. This can happen thru several things but is fairly uncommon if you are running the LR behind because it wedges the car so much it is hard to transfer that much wieght onto the RR tire and make it out drive the LR.

    This would be something like having very little static bite in the car and either having a stiff RR spring so it accepts most of the transfered wieght during body roll or just having to much side to side transfer which unloads the LR to much and loads the RR to much. Basically this just means that the RR has so much more wieght on it compaired to the LR which causes the back end of the car to drive the car left.

    There is no right or wrong answer for the right amount of bite, it all goes along with the set up and track conditions.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2006
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    SW Illinois
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLM racer View Post
    What does side bite do, and foward drive do. I'm sure I know but just want to be 100% sure. How do you tell which of the two a chassis might need.

    Thanks Guys
    I'll try to say the same thing in a different way.

    Generally:

    Side bite likes the SCCA (club racers ) guys.
    Forward bite likes drag racers.
    Side bite uses four tires.
    Forward bite uses two.
    Side bite likes a low Center Of Gravity.
    Forward bite likes a high COG.
    Side bite likes the front to weigh the same as the rear.
    Forward bite likes 0% front and 100% rear.
    Side bite likes the side bias % that results in equal left and right while cornering.
    Forward bite likes 50% left side weight.
    Side bite hates forward bite for wearing out the rear tires.
    Forward bite can't help it. (or don't care)
    Side bite starts to act goofy......

  8. #8
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    Oct 2006
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    NC.
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    ....yet somehow, they both like money!!!

  9. #9
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    Sep 2006
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    ....yet somehow, they both like money!!!
    You hit that one on the head! Seems like these things should run out of places to put new stuff!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    272

    Default

    Sidebite is a racer's best friend tho. Forward bite usually means a push to the uneducated like myself

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