Metric deficiency

[Lizardracing]

Here, I'll start something,

What, geometry issue's I so often here about, do the metric mods, suffer most?

Is it bump, or camber gain,

I also here that the metric mods can be made to work, but no will seems to know what that is. Some say the metric are soft and can't take a hit.

Thought's?

[race81]

ok, heres my opinion, metric built mods are lighter stubs, but not no more weaker than a chevelle that anyone will notice. i think that alot of a mods strength comes from tubing and the way they are built. light built cars, peirce, skyrockets and others are fast, but get a medium hit to the chassis and its off to get restubbed. our metric car which i built myself, has alot of camber gain, (i dont think thats a good thing) but im using nova lowers, so i couldnt say on the stock lowers. we adjust our bump steer easily with the correct idler arm, a little modification to the frame and some heims with bump steer adjusters at the spindle, which on our car is stock. our car is a little heavier than the others, but can take twice the hit many lighter built cars will take.

[profab00]

Not mentioning no names of particular chassis, but some of the metric chassis have a ton of camber gain built on purpose into the right front to make up for the ineffective rear suspension they have. The right front tread surface's camber gain gives the cars a nice balance and some of these cars win a ton of races because of the balance.

[Lizardracing]

So your saying those cars are abusing the RF and LR? Makes em for a few laps but then the start slowing down. Hopefully your far enough ahead by then it won't matter. Maybe those cars don't work on the slick because they are hard to turn without rearsteer.

[profab00]

Actually, I am saying that if these chassis didn't have the ton of camber gain, they would be loose because the front would be more efficient than the rear. So they make the front less efficient and beleive me, some of these chassis wins tons of races.

[FlatTire]

The metric front end has got roll center and camber gain issues if you leave it with the metric spindles & lower arms. You can get the rollcenter where it needs to be with some extra long ball joints that Howe makes, but you've still got camber issues. They've also got spindles that bend easily even with spindle savers. All of this contributes to a front end that doesn't hook up and work very well. Nova lowers and Pinto spindles is definitely the way to go or just use the Chevelle front clip. I'm not sure it's still this way but GRT used to build most of their modifieds on a metric chassis and switched over to chevelle frames due to their deficiencies and customers preference.

[Lizardracing]

What, exactly, makes the lowers so bad:-? it can't be fixed with the upper control arm lenght and inner pivot placement. I see stock cars with roll center to high on stock uppers because the ball joint is lower than the inner pivot. Is this what you mean. Does the arc of the shorter metric lowers create the unwanted camber gain? So using the longer Nova lowers decreases the arc. Roll center can be adjusted with ride height to a certian degree, Is getting a low enough ride hieght a common problem? I mean, the lowering of the the inner pivot to get some angle in the ball joint to inner pivot tanget line.

As far as customers go, most are monkey see monkey do. Chevelles are most populer by far, is that really because the metric are so bad, or because no one has figured it out the metric yet. If they have, they may not be sayin.:rolleyes:

I welded a 1/2" by .065 walled tube from the end of the tie rod arm to the ball joint "bulge" on my metric spindle. I have yet to bend em in 5 years of racing. They are a pound heavier, but I see that as a nice trade off.

[Nascar8n1]

Anyone play with the spindle that is about 2" taller to get both upper and lower arms to work together, and get the ride heights down, helps with ackerman adjustments also?

[race81]

we used to use a taller spindle on our old chevelle stub but that was years ago. never heard of such a thing on a metric. when we did use it though i believe the taller spindle was on the right side..........i think. we now use stock metric with the taller lower balljoints and adjustable upper arms.

[Dirt Mod Racer]

Does anybody know if or what geomerty issue's the ford crown vic has if using it for a stub to go on a Mod.

[Nascar8n1]

Sorry I meant 2" drop spindle, It would have same geometry as latemodel spindle. They use them for ASA racing has gm part number.