Help Solve a Tech Issue Please

[LM14]

We have a local promoter that has 3 tracks in one area. He failed to print LM rules until after the first race of the season (I actually printed the rules based on what we ran previously around here, he approved them and they were given to 4 or 5 people I know of plus posted on the internet. That's it). He has not teched one single car all summer. Only ran around 12 specials all summer. Turnout was low in the class because ( in my opinion) he never tried to get the word out anywhere. No advertising. Didn't mention the class sponsor's name in any andvertising and any ads that went out were usually giving the wrong dates or prices for admission.

We sit in an area that has a lot of IMCA spec motor cars one direction and open motor cars the other. The great equalizer was to be the 390 carb on open motors (never teched a single carb anyway). Competition was fairly equal amongst those showing up with a slight edge to the open motors. Also changed tire rules after entry fees were paid at one special.

Have any of you ever delt with a no tech deal like this?
How long did it last?
How was your car count without tech or solid rules?
Any ideas on ways to improve this deal?

1 of the Fairboards involved has asked me for information (2 of the 3 Fairboards involved are very upset with how things were handled this past season). I just wanted to get an opinion from a larger area then SE Iowa before responding to the Fairboard. Are we being too harsh on him? Is this how it is at your track?

Thanks for the input, feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer publically. I appreciate your opinions and this will remain confidential if you PM me.

Thanks,
SPark

[Rocket Bonehead]

We have a local promoter that has 3 tracks in one area. He failed to print LM rules until after the first race of the season (I actually printed the rules based on what we ran previously around here, he approved them and they were given to 4 or 5 people I know of plus posted on the internet. That's it). He has not teched one single car all summer. Only ran around 12 specials all summer. Turnout was low in the class because ( in my opinion) he never tried to get the word out anywhere. No advertising. Didn't mention the class sponsor's name in any andvertising and any ads that went out were usually giving the wrong dates or prices for admission.

We sit in an area that has a lot of IMCA spec motor cars one direction and open motor cars the other. The great equalizer was to be the 390 carb on open motors (never teched a single carb anyway). Competition was fairly equal amongst those showing up with a slight edge to the open motors. Also changed tire rules after entry fees were paid at one special.

Have any of you ever delt with a no tech deal like this?
How long did it last?
How was your car count without tech or solid rules?
Any ideas on ways to improve this deal?

1 of the Fairboards involved has asked me for information (2 of the 3 Fairboards involved are very upset with how things were handled this past season). I just wanted to get an opinion from a larger area then SE Iowa before responding to the Fairboard. Are we being too harsh on him? Is this how it is at your track?

Thanks for the input, feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer publically. I appreciate your opinions and this will remain confidential if you PM me.

Thanks,
SPark



My opinion would be that if you're going to run a spec engine or 390 carb, you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE INSPECTIONS.


That said, with your situation, the easier route to go would be to make the rules as close to the WoOLM or LOLMS and have a hard tire rule. Keep the tires in check, and you'll keep competition close. Tires are easy to tech, AND, if you have someone pushing the rules, their fellow racers will generally find out.


One way to look at it is that with less rules, more cars will be legal and maybe willing to run there. That is just one way to look at it. 9 times out of 10, crate engine racing included, when you have a 'restricted' class, it doesn't save nearly as much money as people think (a 390 carb is a good example). A lot of times there are guys that just want to race, so if they can put together a cheap, budget engine that just allows them to race their car, you will find that a number of guys will go that route in order to do just that.




RB

[billetbirdcage]

Here is one of the biggest complaints I have.

RULES!

Nothing Pee's me off more then to run a sactioning body and have the rules changing all the time. This is WHY you run a sactioning body, so you know what the rules are and how the show is going to run. I may hate some rules they have but it they inforce it and treat everyone the same I have no problem with it. There are several sactioning bodies out there that the rules change way to often or they have all these combo races and you never now what rules apply. Been to many a races that one saction had a couple of tire choices and the other only one. One was 55 only and the other allowed softer tires but had a 55 tire, we were all told that it was going to be a 55 rule (makes since since they already had 55's also and nobody would have to buy tires unless you just need some new ones). Well needless to say get down there and it's their tire rule, alot of us had some softer tires but they told us it was 55 so nobody brought any.

Well the next year they did the same race again and what do you know hardly any of the racers from the 55 only tire saction showed up . When the only two or three racers show up and only one of them was in the top 10 (something like 7th). I can't say it enought the IDEA of a SACTIONING BODY is so you know what the rules are and they will be inforced for EVERYBODY.

On the rest of it I'm in line with RB, any rules need to be inforced. The more you limit rules the more they need to be inforced. The racers will police themselves to an extent but it is only on things that are easily seen. To many tracks or sactioning bodies try to make the racers police themselves on everything, kind of hard to see inside the guys spec engine and see he has ported heads. If you arent going to inforce the rule or have the things you need to do so, DON'T WRITE THE RULE!!

Other thing is they try to save up money with stupid rules. NO ROLLER CAMS, a complete roller set up is cheaper then killer flat tappet (if you know anything about engines and the things that are available). And quit changing the rules every year, changing the engine combos around every year costs more then running open rules and 30,000.00 engines when you have to build a new one every year and can't sell the old one because it isn't legal.

Not inforcing rules is a promotors quick fix to help the car count (lets a couple guys that aren't legal come over and race) but in the long run it drives cars away because everyone is cheating and some get away with it and other don't and everyone gets fead up with it.

[billetbirdcage]

Another thing is the dolly pardon purses they all have. While we usually run up front, but the other guys that are coming into the sport or are still trying to get a grasp on this thing we call LM racing are dropping like flies because it costs to much and they aren't getting enough start money to just break even of what the spend to get there. After a while you have the 5 guys that always run up front (they are fine with the purse) are the only ones racing and now you only have 5 cars coming to the track.

Tracks also try to make the purse on the back gate, what happended to putting people in the stands??? Also,Sactioning Bodies that have a large sactioning fee and send 2 or many 3 officials to the track (1500.00 to 3000.00 for two or three people COME ON!)

Thanks Steve, I got to get my rant out for this week! :-D

[Bowtiepwr]

I agree with everything that has been said and especially billets comment. The more you LIMIT the rules the more you must ENFORCE them. We run a limited late model that specifies many rules (2bbl, bowtie heads, 11:1 max comp, and 360cu.inch) but then out of the blue the promotor begins allowing crate motors to run with us and use 14 inch wheels and weigh 50lbs less then us because that is the rules at the track they normally race at....alright well maybe im missing something because they ARN'T racing at their home track they are racing at a DIFFERENT track and this track has its own set of rules, but yet he allows them to run to gain a few extra cars despite the 15 or so loyal drivers who show up every week.....gain 2 or lose 15 what will it be?? He then tells the weekly drivers that he has always allowed crate motors but yet it says nothing in the rules about anything of the sort, seems like we are making up rules as we go.....

[LM14]

Keep them coming.

Quote:
Not inforcing rules is a promotors quick fix to help the car count (lets a couple guys that aren't legal come over and race) but in the long run it drives cars away because everyone is cheating and some get away with it and other don't and everyone gets fead up with it.

Thanks Billet, that is one of my arguments that nobody here seems to understand.

Quote:
Tracks also try to make the purse on the back gate, what happended to putting people in the stands???

Once again, thumbs up to Billet. You get it!

I actually have a person on another site arguing that it isn't the promoter's job to advertise a special! He thinks I'm bashing his promoter and being too harsh. I just don't get this mentality. (He took $$$ from the class sponsor and then failed to advertise any races. Is that normal from where you race?)

I appreciate the responses, keep them coming. I am not looking for agreement with my arguments, I am looking for what is happening around the country at other tracks.

How long before the no tech issue will turn around and bite a promoter? Any ideas?

Thanks,
SPark

[Chris Steele]

I actually have a person on another site arguing that it isn't the promoter's job to advertise a special! He thinks I'm bashing his promoter and being too harsh. I just don't get this mentality. (He took $$$ from the class sponsor and then failed to advertise any races. Is that normal from where you race?)


Promoter is someone who PROMOTES a given event or activity. Doesn't he know what promote means? LMAO! If I park my truck in the drive way without a FOR SALE sign in the window, not many people are going to stop and ask about buying it are they? Same principal, different situation. Some promoters think putting on the local racing forum is all the advertising they need to do, but not everybody has a computer.

Promoter; advocate (campaigner), advertiser, supporter

[billetbirdcage]

Why do promotors also have there rules so you are stuck with running only their track? Are they afraid if they had the same rules as another track that they may go over there sometime to race and find out that they are treated more fairly and maybe that the other track is just all around better?

Stick with a common set of rules, the more car that are eligible to race the more will likely come and race. That is simple math, if there are only 20 cars in a hundred mile raduis with one set of rules or 40 cars in the same radius with a common set of rules -- which one is likely to get more cars??? Doesn't take Einstein to figure out that one.

Alot of them think that they put it (the race/advertise) on some forum that is enough. I thought the idea was to bring in more people and expose racing to new people, If you aren't into dirt racing you aren't reading those forums are you. I know i don't get on BASS FISHING FORUMS (I don't fish) so I wouldn't expect others that aren't into or ever thought about dirt racing to get on one let alone find a dirt racing forum.

I'm not a promotor and don't have all the answers and maybe wrong on several things, but alot of them just don't try very hard (appears to me to be that way). Look at tracks that have been under the same promotor for more then ten years, they do all more then the others and must be doing something right.

[mbaker76]

Not that it goes with the engine rules, but I also think some promoters could do better at a lot of stuff. Some tracks it seems like the promoters never listen to the drivers and do whatever they want anyway, some tracks the promoters ask a few select drivers opinions and make decisions based on that, some promoters just let things go hoping everything will take care of itself so they dont have to deal with it.

This past weekend we were at a 2 day show and the 2nd day the promoters decided they were going to lose too much money because of a poor crowd and rescheduled the whole thing for 2 weeks later. The track was rolled in ready to go, it was cloudy but no rain getting ready to hotlap and then all of a sudden its over. That just sucks, I mean I know there are a lot of expensies involved to run a track but did they forget about all the expense the drivers and crew put into getting the cars ready, getting to the track, spending the night, etc etc. Seems like they were only thinking of themselves there. Now all those drivers have to decide whether to venture back along with the cost of getting there or give up the money it cost to enter and pit pass money both nghts. The majority of us racing on weekends arent making money at it, its just a 'hobby' if you can still call it that......maybe more advertising, better planning etc might have helped but that would take more effort.

[Chris Steele]

I agree billet, they are afraid their racers will get treated better at track "X" and not come back, so they try to tie you down. They don't look at the flip side of this, they could get more cars if they treated everybody the same.
That is one thing I like about the Crate Late Models in our area, there are 6-7 tracks that all have the same EXACT rules for our class.

mbaker, we don't have any promoters left anymore, they are business men...out for a dollar and could give a rip less about us racers.

[Lizardracing]

A race track is a buisiness. Like any buisiness they make money from the racers (venders) and the specators(customers). Get more of both and keep your cost's in control, and the track will make money everytime. Unfortunatly, most "good" buisiness men make more money in banking, real estate, Stock market, ect...then what they would at race track. It's takes a special kinda buisiness person that loves redneck auto racing to excell. Some one who wants to make little money for a lot of hard work just to see a bunch cars go round and round.


Like any buisiness, bad plans tend to make bad tracks. Those tracks will eventually die and the ones that have good plans will live on.