Appleton Rack Problems

[zeroracing]

I currently have an Appleton Rack. It does the following: turns left easy, pulls left all the time (light to medium pull), EXTREMELY stiff to turn right. The car reacts like one with too much RF caster when on the track, as long as you get used to the left pull and do not try to turn hard right (can counter steer just fine). I talked to Swartz, they said they have had this problem on house cars and figured out it was the rack. You can send it in to Appleton and they will rebuild it. It is not cheap to rebuild and fix it, then it will be fixed for a short time and go right back the the way mine is now. Swartz recommended getting a Sweet mfg rack, which I plan on getting once I get the extra funds together to do so. My question is has anybody else had this problem with thier rack? What was the problem in the rack? I am guessing it is in the servo, and seen a seal kit for the servo but have not seen a part to buy spare parts from.
I would like to run this rack a few more weeks till I get the funds to buy a new one, along with keep this one in the trailer for a spare.

[billetbirdcage]

It sounds like a servo problem too me! I have never owned any brand of power racks as I always used a different kind of power steering (used manual racks with an different power steering - basically a power input to the shaft going to the manual rack, so I never had to take one apart so I'm not going to be much help but a seal kit might fix or help the problem if one of the seals is leaking past loosing some of the power assist to the right.

[claybuster]

We had one do that, sent it in, not sure what they did. I hear BRT has pretty much taken over the Appleton rebuilds. I think this guy in Houston (http://www.performanceraceeng.com) can work on them, you might give him a call. We have since purchased a Sweet, the Appleton is still on the GRT.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have many laps on Appletons and never had that problem. Lucky, I guess. It certainly sounds like a servo problem.

[wilder11354]

We had one do that, sent it in, not sure what they did. I hear BRT has pretty much taken over the Appleton rebuilds. I think this guy in Houston (http://www.performanceraceeng.com) can work on them, you might give him a call. We have since purchased a Sweet, the Appleton is still on the GRT.

Hey Clay thought you bought a new racK? had other rebuilt used as spare.... or did untill you sold it......TOO ME!!! Boy, cars giving me fits getting a setup on it, NOW i got to watch out for the RACK GREMLIN!? Well guess a visit to the wall one more time won't be any worse then the last visit.....LOL
Nothing against you Clay.....

[claybuster]

Wilder, it wasnt the rack I sold you. Promise, the one I am talking about is on the GRT we still have. We put a Sweet on the Rocket.

[Kromulous]

I noticed the same thing when we fired up our LM last weekend. It was low on fluid, seems like you got to fill it when its running.

I would say rebuild it yourself, i did ours and there is nothing in there thats to high tech. I didnt do the servo thou, but fixing to now. Dont expect any trouble.

Krom.

[wilder11354]

Just poking a lil fun at things. Got bell back from welder, put driveline back in, ran car for first time, Racks ok.... But do have a minor leak on line up at pump fitting to rack,SEE I TOLD YA ... :shock: now i got the flat footed rack gremlin!!! Gonna get the Sum Of a bitch!!!

[ShortTrakWarrior]

i have had this exact problem just the way u discribed

i changed racks with a brand new one and did not fix it. experts told me it was the servo but were wrong as i bought a new rack and servo. i sent old rack off to appleton they said it was filled with rubber. they cleaned it and sent it back free of charge. all my lines were new so i went to the pump and the rubber impeller inside was decinigrated. so i flushed the rubber from the impeller out of the lines using air compresser and desiel fuel. then put a brand new pump on and suddenly both racks were in perfect working order again.

how ever if for some unsightly reason its not ur pump. i have a new appleton rack id sale. cause the new on i purchased was non refundable since i installed it.

i would suggest that you have some one like appleton check the rack( all u pay is shipping) they will clean it inside and out and if they say there is nothing wrong. check your pump.

if you put a new pump on prior to cleaning the rack and lines you will still have the same problem.

just wanna save ya the money before ya waist it like i did. it cost me 600$ for a rack i dont need.

[zeroracing]

I am putting my newer KRC pump off my mood on it for this weekend. Also took the rack apart some and cleaned it good, if this does not fix it I will send it off to them to clean out the servo. How long did it take for them to get it back to you?
Thanks,
Jason

[Rocket Bonehead]

Bingo... It ain't the rack, it is the pump. KRC's are NOTORIOUS for not flowing enough volume, even with their "high volume valve" (which, by the way, they DO NOT send out IN the pump; must be ordered seperate). The "E" valve will make it much better, but I'd still recommend swapping the pump out to a Sweet. No issues with their pumps.


If you're running a DLM, and using a KRC pump, you MUST have the "E" valve in the pump (swap out the piston that comes with it as well). The only guys I've heard of having issues with Appleton's were using KRC pumps. And I've heard this same issue described MANY times.



NOTE, and this is a big one, if you get that pump changed and the valve changed, and the issue STILL persists, then you have most likely burned up the servo. I had this issue with a customer of mine and it took me longer to figure out than I'd like to admit. I'd also recommend switching up to plain old Type F ATF (non-synthetic) as it seems to work a bit better with those KRC's.



RB

[ShortTrakWarrior]

I am putting my newer KRC pump off my mood on it for this weekend. Also took the rack apart some and cleaned it good, if this does not fix it I will send it off to them to clean out the servo. How long did it take for them to get it back to you?
Thanks,
Jason



I live in Tennessee and im not sure where they are located because i had my local speed shop ship it for me.
so you might wanna find that out. because if u live closer to them they will get it faster and ship out faster.

ups picked it up on a thursday evening and i got it back the next wednesday around lunch time.

if no parts are needed they will tear it apart and clean it for free and u will only pay shipping costs.

i am a 100% sure there is nothing wrong with it, just needs cleaned out along with your lines if they are new if they are old and detirerating replace them to be on the safe side and if they say nothings wrong other than its stopped up with rubber. throw your pump in the garbage cause if you put it back on again it will stop up the rack again in just a short time.

[Kromulous]

Bingo... It ain't the rack, it is the pump. KRC's are NOTORIOUS for not flowing enough volume, even with their "high volume valve" (which, by the way, they DO NOT send out IN the pump; must be ordered seperate). The "E" valve will make it much better, but I'd still recommend swapping the pump out to a Sweet. No issues with their pumps.


If you're running a DLM, and using a KRC pump, you MUST have the "E" valve in the pump (swap out the piston that comes with it as well). The only guys I've heard of having issues with Appleton's were using KRC pumps. And I've heard this same issue described MANY times.



NOTE, and this is a big one, if you get that pump changed and the valve changed, and the issue STILL persists, then you have most likely burned up the servo. I had this issue with a customer of mine and it took me longer to figure out than I'd like to admit. I'd also recommend switching up to plain old Type F ATF (non-synthetic) as it seems to work a bit better with those KRC's.



RB

Great info, question for ya RB, do you run type F in your sweet style pump as well?

I just put plain old power steering fluid in ours, gonna flush it out this week and change it thou. Wondering what i should put back in. Its a Sweet pump.

Krom.

[billetbirdcage]

The original problem was posted as easy left and hard right. I'm assuming the a weak pump will not power one way and not the other. I would definately buy the pump coming apart and trash going to the servo and partially blocking one side of the power assist causing the condition. Maybe because of the caster split when the pumps are weak it is just more noticable turning right???

I would agree with you on the pressures of some pumps, I believe sweet also has two different pressures on thier pumps a 900 PSI and a 1200 PSI or something like that. I recall one being for a steering box and the other for a rack, most places don't list what pressure they are. So be careful when ordering a pump to get the right one.

[wilder11354]

Appleton Rack & Pinion, Inc.
110 Industrial Drive
Minooka, IL 60447
Phone: (815) 467-1175
Fax: (815) 467-1179

[Rocket Bonehead]

I wouldn't have thought so either Billet, but after about 10 laps at a practice with a buddy that's exactly what happened (all Woodward steering stuff). Car pulled real hard to the L (even at slow speeds) and got worse as the fluid got hotter. We swapped the valve on the pump and that fixed the problem. Fortunately the servo didn't seem to be affected.


Krom-

Yes, I put Type F ATF in everything for P/S. I wouldn't have thought it would work that well, but after a chat with the guys at Woodward a while back, been running it with no issues since. I haven't had any issues with boiling or foaming. I change it out every 10 to 15 nights depending on how "hard" the car's been run (track conditions, laps, etc...).



RB