Driving Style

[EVR_99]

Ok our driver can't seem to maintain keeping the car sideway. Every time I, errr he gets sideways he's either backing out of the throttle to straighten it out or spinning out. We know the car is capable when we had some experienced drivers in it this year. Our driver does most of the work on the car so the owner says you, errr he should drive it. So the thought is should we try and set the car so it drive kinda like racing asphalt. We run a limited LM 2002 GRT on a 4/10 track that keeps good traction in it. Most guys are running 50-100 bite at feature time. Here is our current set
LR 525 w 1375, RF 400 w 3/5,
LR 250 5/3 6/0 in front LRU 3rd hole up LRB 2nd hole up
RR 225 1394 RRU 3rd RRB 2nd
Jbar 4th hole on frame 2nd up on pinion
5th 73 at 35" with 300
52.5% w/o driver 55% Rear, 59 bite, 4" stagger, 3/8" lead

If I entertain the different driving style what kind of changes should I be looking at. I just don't know if our driver is every gonna get the ability to handle a car sideways.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Put some rf spring in it and some wedge. Then you should be able to steer it into the corner. That is my guess. I like a car with almost no spring split in the front and I think I drive pretty straight. I'll kill a rf tire before a rr a lot of times.

[profab00]

Where is the car loose at in the corner, entry, middle, exit? If it is middle, is it before you get on the gas or afterwards?

[billetbirdcage]

When you say "3/8" lead" Do you mean 3/8" trail in the RR bars? or do you have the RR bars 3/8" shorter then the LR?

[EVR_99]

Yea I meant 3/8" trail. I guess if its loose its everywhere. Some times I feel like I'm going to spin out as I'm entering the turn (done many times). I've spun it out in the middle when I feel the car has roll over and get back into gas (hard or easy). I've spun it coming off turn. Biggest thing is anytime I'm sideways I'm trying to straighten it out. It might be because I've spun out so many times now when I've tried to maintain slide that I don't trust myself anymore. I've been fortunate enough that I haven't hit anything when I have spun. But how long can my luck last, lol. I think some guys are just meant to turn the wrenches maybe I'm one of them.

[billetbirdcage]

First I would check the RF shock travel and make sure it isn't bottoming out. If that is Ok then wrap a couple of wire ties around a couple of the coils on opposite sides and see if they are getting cut into or smashed. If that is the case, the spring is coil binding.

While a 400 likely isn't bottoming out but with a steel engine (assuming here-LLM) it is very possible. If the RF becomes solid it will do one of two thing usually: spin out if the car has drift angle or slide the front end if the car is driven straight. So check that out first.

If You, errr I mean your driver doesn't have any confidence in the car, that is the start of your problem. I'm going to be honest here, you may or may not be the problem. I have seen alot of guys that everyone thought couldn't drive a lick, when in fact it was the car. Whether this is due to lack of knowledge on making the right adjustments, listening to the wrong people, or just not being able to feel what the car is actually doing is the hard part to figure out.

Before you get too hard on youself, here is a prime example of this:
This guy (let's call him "BOB") I knew and raced with Bob at a local track (different class) and was a good friend of one of my friends (lets call him Steve). Bob ran a street stock and did quite well enough so that he won the track championship there and desided to move up to modifieds. He started racing the mod and severly struggled and was all over the place and very incosistant (couple good laps and several bad ones). People started to question whether or not he was ever going to make it in a mod after almost a season in one including his friend Steve that I knew well.

Finally one night he had Steve drive the car in a practice session (I wasn't there). Steve calls me and tells me that the car pulls right rather badly and asks what causes that. I told him that it sounded like Bob had the caster split backwards and to have him recheck it. Supposedly it was fine, but I went to watch a race they were both at the next week and went over to talk to them. Steve asked me to look at Bob's front end as he didn't think it was set right. So I go over an just sight down the upper and lower ball joints and the uppers were ahead of the lowers (negitive caster). He was turning the wheels the wrong way first then turning back the other to set the caster which was backwards for his guage. They didn't have a guage with them at the track so I just moved the upper till the upper ball joints were behind the lowers and comletely guessed on the split but it for sure now had psoitve caster and more positive caster on the RF then the LF.

Low and behold he went out and won his first Mod race that night. So it wasn't him it was the car. This guy "Bob" is now on the USTMS tour and does quite well (names changed to protect the "innocent" LOL).

Moral of the story, before you get down on yourself have a good experienced driver hop in your car and drive it to see if there is something wrong with the car. While the way he like his cars may be different then yours, it will atleast give you an idea if you need to work on the car or the driver the most.

[billetbirdcage]

We know the car is capable when we had some experienced drivers in it this year.

Sorry, I completely missed that. Ignore above post

[EVR_99]

Appreciate you trying to maker me feel better. Rubber stays about 3/4" to 1" from bottoming out. Are you recommending ties above where the spring meets the cup? I've tried 400 and 450 on the RF but what you described seems like what happens to me. The brain says you'll get the hang of it someday (thou its been about 12 races now). The competitor in me says the car is pretty good and we deserve to have better finishes then what I'm giving it.

[billetbirdcage]

Just pick a coil, say one close to the middle of the spring and rap a plastic wire tie around it and another one on the opposite side. If the coil spring goes into bind (all the coils smashed together) the wire tie will get smashed or cut into. If you see marks on it or it is gone then that means the spring is traveling until it goes into coil bind and becomes solid.

Just go around one coil or the roughly .5" round sized pieces of the spring with a wire tie, like what you do on the bottom to hold the spring to the cup but higher up (like the half way up) so you can see if the coils are touching each other.

[EVR_99]

This is the track we run on Sat which usually drier the Fri track which I gave the set too. Our car is the 00. About the only car you can see the number on. The other cars on this page are in our class. That about how I look all the time.

http://dpwebdesigns.smugmug.com/gallery/3047243#P-13-15

[billetbirdcage]

12 races? total dirt track experience or just in a LM?

You might want to consider going to a LM class that is one day class and one day driving. You'll probably get better instruction if you do one of the one on one classes. Something like Duval's or Mcdowell's, althought I don't if Mcdowell's is still doing it since Dale and Shane went to work for RCR. I would think there would be a school somewhere in your area.

This may seem like a fair amount on money, but in the long run you will probably win most of it back a little at a time. Even if you only pick up one or two spots a night that adds up.

Hard to fix something when you can't see what is going on, like over the internet.

[EVR_99]

Yea that is my experience level. Duval is not to far away from us. Something I have thought about think it cost around a grand.

Failed to mention about the picture (which was during qualifying) I spun out exiting the turn, lol.

[ajb59]

the learning curve can be steep. Hang in there !

[racin29]

ok you drive flat that is fine i drive flat, i race with guys that drive flat, i think its more common in LLM, not havin as much power, anyways lets get started, i used to have the same problems you are talking about but it does get better, here is some thing you might want to try its gonna tighten the hell out of your car but you will feel it moving and what not

leave the lf alone, put a striaght 5 shock on the rf

lr 275 on a 5/3 (if you have an 8/2 or close use it) get rid of the front shock for now move your lru bar up to top hole move the lrb to 3rd up

leave the 225 on the rr but put a 3 shock on it, the bars look good right now

if you have weight on the right move it left, hang all weight high in the car on the left you will feel it move more keep your weight at the min tho

move the pinion mount to the bottom hole, if you are using a long jbar go to a short one

increase your bite to around 125#

make sure your brks are ballanced and play with them a little bit you will notice the difference

now comes the important stuff, get your throttle rod as low on the peddle arm as possible you will have to adjust the length of the rod

hopefully this will help you out

[racin29]

ok you drive flat that is fine i drive flat, i race with guys that drive flat, i think its more common in LLM, not havin as much power, anyways lets get started, i used to have the same problems you are talking about but it does get better, here is some thing you might want to try its gonna tighten the hell out of your car but you will feel it moving and what not

leave the lf alone, put a striaght 5 shock on the rf

lr 275 on a 5/3 (if you have an 8/2 or close use it) get rid of the front shock for now move your lru bar up to top hole move the lrb to 3rd up

leave the 225 on the rr but put a 3 shock on it, the bars look good right now

if you have weight on the right move it left, hang all weight high in the car on the left you will feel it move more keep your weight at the min tho

move the pinion mount to the bottom hole, if you are using a long jbar go to a short one

increase your bite to around 125#, % look ok

make sure your brks are ballanced and play with them a little bit you will notice the difference

now comes the important stuff, get your throttle rod as low on the peddle arm as possible you will have to adjust the length of the rod

hopefully this will help you out