How well does your tech man know the rules?

[LM23]

We have a rule in our written rules that any car after its third feature win will have at least a head removed for a more complete inspection. When the tech man was asked Sat night why a car who has won 3 has not had a head pulled, his reply was = "Why?".

When told of the rule, he said he never heard of such a thing and pretty well said it was not in the rules that he had a copy of. Well, it must then asked of him just how much money he would like to bet on it. With a bit of upset now in his demeanor he grabbed a set of rules for the late models, looked them over closely and said "I'll be darned, it is in there."

Amazing isn't it?

[Egoracing44]

1. We had a tech inspector look at our hp series carb for 5 minutes, then said " That is not a vacuum carb ". The tracks rules were a 3310 on there engine or a HP on a crate motor. We said it was an HP and he said " They are not legal " we replied that they are on a crate motor. He looked the engine over for a few seconds and asked if it was a crate motor and we replied yes and He said OK. The worst part was, the 604 crate has aluminum heads which are not allowed by there rules unless it is a crate motor and he never seemed to notice them.
2. We were at a track where the 4cyl bomber winner was DQ'd for his muffler hanging behind the car by the muffler hanger. They argued for about 15 minutes and I thought it was going to come to blows. The drivers brother (looked like he was about 8 years old) was sitting on the wall by the tech area looking at the rule book and HE pointed out the rule in the book was "Mufflers MANDATORY", it did NOT say they had to be attached to the exhaust pipe. They looked at the book like a bunch of deer caught in someones head lights and agreed that he was the winner.

[WestlingRacing]

That muffler story is funny!!!
One of the tracks I run on Fridays, a couple weeks ago 10 of the 14 stock cars were disqualified for engines being set back. Apparently the rules were changed by the tech. but he didnt give out new rules. Funny thing is that night the winner only ran 4 laps. Everyone who finished was disqualified!!
In our latemodel class we run the Crates with the LimitedLates. 400hp vs. 650hp, Crash fest every week. Had been averaging 20 cars a week down to 12 as of last week. Probably could have had 15 or more in each class every week if they ran seporate, but the tech guy runs pretty much everything. Talked to the track owner Saturday and he has decided to look for another tech. I said good Idea!! DUHHH

[pinionangle]

We have a tech guy that will do anything to find a cheater. Its not uncommon for him to ask the top 5 to pull seats out, driver side doors and decking out of cars so he can inspect wiring. He's busted no less than 10 b-mods for running forged pistons, bombers for have to much vacume and mods for 3 wheel brake switches. A typical night they check fuel, rpm chip, head bolts and weight in our crate class.


As for that guy up at devils bowl..

[Lizardracing]

On top of what Westling said, a nearby track tech guy tried to disqualify about 85% of a big mod turn out due to the rules listing OEM steering part's. Pinto spindles were deemed illegal on any but a pinto\pinto stub. About intermission time they realized the "gray area" and let it go.

Westling, I've been wondering what happened the late class there. You think they Crates engines aren't powerful enough to keep a car sideways? Three or four weeks it's been called to to time?

[billetbirdcage]

I find it more how smart or stupid the tech guy is, while most are pretty good it is hard to find someone that has the knowledge about these cars that isn’t a racer himself or has good friends racing there which can be an issue.

Here are a couple of examples of what I’m talking about:

A guy was running at a track almost every week and he had his engine moved back 1” too far. A couple of guys started to complain to the tech guy, so before the race he went and measured the guy’s engine set-back. It was indeed 1” to far back, so the tech man told them they couldn’t race until they moved the engine forward 1”.

Here is how they fixed it: They installed 1” worth of 3/8” washers between the mid plate and the tabs the mid-plate attaches to the frame (midplate on front side of tabs). Keep in mind they never loosened the two ½” bolts on the two side motor mounts, just bowed the mid-plate forward where it attaches to the frame. Then they went and got the tech man to inspect it.

The tech looks at it and measures the thickness of the washers but not the set-back and says “Ok, you legal”. The guy that owns the car says “So as long as I have those washers in there, I’m legal right” Tech’s reply: “Yes”.

Next one was on me.

I was racing a LLM that was 8# per cubic inch of engine but a 2450 minimum. I had a 311 CID engine so I needed to weight 2488 after the race. I had just freshened the engine for the last race of the year which was a 2000.00 to win race and was a 3 day show. I set fast time and ran the mini-feature to win the pole for the next night’s money race. So they puffed my engine that night to check for CID, the motor puffed 308. I didn't have to race the 2nd night as I couldn't better my starting position for the main race.

The final night I won the race and the engine puffed 309. So they were coming up 2 or 3 inches short but pretty close.

At the start of the next year they had inadvertently left out the rule about aluminum heads, so I removed the dart heads and installed a set of Brodix heads. I didn’t change anything else only the heads from steel to aluminum.

The first race of the year, I won the heat race and weighted and was 2530 (I added weight to compensate for the aluminum heads) which was typical. I added fuel and ran the feature and won. When I weighed the car came up at 2480 so I rolled off the scales and back on and still came up 2480. I wasn’t too worried about them reading light as the engine puffed 308 and 309 earlier, so all I needed was the engine to puff 310 and I was fine.

They puff the engine and he tells me I’m illegal that the engine is puffing a 315. I’m arguing that you puffed it at the last race and it was 308/309 and that it was a 308. He tells me that I’ll have to pull a head. I say “OK” figuring they may not make me do it since I am pretty willing to pull it to show I’m legal. He says he needs to talk to the track owner first. He comes back and says pull the head if you don’t want to be DQed. I tell him they will pay for my gaskets when I show them I’m legal.

So I pull ahead figuring all I have to due to have them come up just short on the bore or stroke to make 1 cubic inch and I’m fine. The engine is a 3.905 bore and a 3.25 stroke with the piston in the hole .022 with a thin .015 head gasket. He measures the bore with a pair of digital calipers and comes up with 3.88 (.025 small which makes a 307 CID) and comes up with 3.25 on the stroke measuring from the deck to the piston. I now argue that the piston is .022 in the hole so you have to subtract that from the stroke and he agrees.

So he has come up with a 3.88 by 3.22 and calculates the engine to be still too big. I’m about to go nuts when a stock 307 is a 3.875 x 3.25 and he says I’m bigger then a 310 to be legal. He tell me that Bore x Stroke x 3.14 x 8 = CID (313.8), and I argue that it is bore radius squared not bore diameter. He is confused and says that is always the way he figured CID and I tell him if the bore is smaller then 4” then his way comes up big and over 4” bore it comes up small due to Pie-R-squared. (My way 1.94 x 1.94 x 3.22 x 3.14 x 8 = 304.4)

He says he has to talk to the track owner, to goes to the track owner and says that I’m illegal by the way he figures CID but by my way I’m legal and my way does make some sense to him. So the track owner see a guy that works at an engine builder and says to ask him how to figure CID. This guy gives him the short formula Bore x Bore x Stroke x .7854 x 8, so now he is really confused!!! He goes back to the track owner and says he has a completely different way of doing it. Track owner says “well what do you come up with his way?” The tech calculates and says the “same as Kent”. Track owner says well let him have it then.

While I was technically illegal because the scales read light for some reason, the only reason I could come up with as to why it puffed bigger with the aluminum heads was they installed a thermometer in the spark plug hole to take the temp readings and I think the aluminum head heat soaked more then the steel head and made it read hotter then it actually was thus the reason it was coming up big.

[chrisw21_2000]

We once were protested when we ran 4 cyl cars. They protested the whole car. After taking drive shaft, rear end, tires off wheels, ect. they get to looking at the engine and the valve cover was a lift off lid pontiac big block valve cover adapted to a 2.5 amc motor. they pull the stickers off the valve cover and threw us out for cross breeding engines. The valve cover had Pontiac embosed on it...

Another time we were running southern all stars truck series and the tech man had checked the same carb 7 times. The eigth time it was iilegal. Yet the rules say we had to run a 318 dodge with a performer RPM intake. Plain as day it said Torker II 340 on the intake. We changed the carb and ran 5th that night coming from the rear.

[Chris Steele]

We got DQ'd one night after being protested on left side manifold. Back in 1991, we were running street stock and got into a wreck. The impact busted the left side manifold when the A-frame hit it. My Dad welded it back together and was missing one small piece so he put a patch on it. (These were Corvette manifolds) We got the tech-man to look at it the following week and he approved it, no one else saw it. Then the very next week, we were protested on left side manifold and the tech man told us we had done that to modify it and we were illegal! Talk about having to race the other driers AND the track officials!! Two weeks after this, my brother made up an article and had it printed as if he were a company holding a seminar to distinguish the difference in stock and non-stock parts. The company he made up was called "BullTech", LMAO!! It ran in the local paper for an entire week!

[billetbirdcage]

Here is another more along the lines of LM23 had in mind:

Same track I talked about earlier 8# per cubic inch and a 2450# minimum. A friend of mine (ROD) just came down to get some laps in before a NCRA race so he ran a weekly LLM show with his LM (which is what the LLM where just a smaller engine).

He ran 2nd or 3rd and had to wieghed after the race because a couple of the locals knew he have a big motor in (he did a 406). So he rolls across the scales knowing his is way too light and will be DQed. The tech guy wieghts the car at 2330# and tells him they will need to puff the engine to see what size it is.

Rod starts telling them "What is minimun wieght?"
Tech "8 pounds per cubic inch"
Rod "isn't there a minimum weight?"
Tech "I'm not sure"
Rod" "I think minimum is something like 2400 or 2450!"
tech "So?"
Rod "well what did I wieght again?"
Tech "Ahhhh, 2330#"
Rod "isn't that under minimum wieght?"
Tech "I'll have to check"

tech guy gets the rule book out

Tech "Yes, there is a minimum wieght and it is 2450, but we still need to puff it to see if your engine is the right size for the wieght"
Rod "Well if I didn't meet minimum wieght, why do you need to puff it?"
Tech "OOOHHH, I see your point.
Tech "You DQed!"

The Tech guy was having a heck of a time seeing that he was under minimum wieght. It was actually quite funny watching Rod trying to expalin to the tech that he was illegal and didn't need to puff the engine.

[WestlingRacing]

On top of what Westling said, a nearby track tech guy tried to disqualify about 85% of a big mod turn out due to the rules listing OEM steering part's. Pinto spindles were deemed illegal on any but a pinto\pinto stub. About intermission time they realized the "gray area" and let it go.

Westling, I've been wondering what happened the late class there. You think they Crates engines aren't powerful enough to keep a car sideways? Three or four weeks it's been called to to time?


No offense to the crates but I have only ran against them 2 times so far and I really see a difference on the acceleration from my point of view. As far as sideways in the corners the ULMA limited cars most of them stop in the corners and spin their tires, and the crate cars go right back around em again if the driver has experience. I'm use to running a Super Latemodel all the time, same class of cars and experienced drivers all in the same class together. But with this track only 5 minutes from home I feel kinda obligated, they been begging me to run there since the track was built. Thought I'd give em' the chance, not sure how long? Finished 6th last week with a broke car and only got $70. Spent that much on race fuel for the night.

Lizard___Were you all been? Thought I heard you guys sold out?
I been running Callaway ULMA/Fasttrack on Fridays. I44 UMP on Sat.. MCS dropped UMP lates due to the track being sued, he couldnt pay the purse for both Latemodel classes wouldnt go back there until theres a new owner.

[Lizardracing]

Two years ago, we showed up a new track knowing we were 175 pounds too light but they only tech the top four cars. No problem, we'll finish 5th.
Well, stuff happens and we ended up fourth. Went to weigh in a get DQ'ed. I sat on the scales with everything I could get my hands on and tech guy thought something was wrong so he rolled off and reset the scales then rolled me back on to still show 175lbs light. A couple of other start wondering around the car and one guy's start's yelling, " He's got a broken bracket, a weight bracket, It musta fell off or something." Tech guy yells back
"Ohhh...Musta been what happened...He's legal..........."
Let me remind him someday, weight falling off your car is a not legal either. Especially a 175 pound block. I still haven't seen that "broken bracket" either.

Westling,

Some weeks ago, 18ish cars started and only 7 finished! Never got more than three laps without a caution. Expensive racing there. Last year it was the B-Mods that couldn't get to together.

Were doing good, Been sticking to one track up north. Yeah you know which one lol. We got some awesome assistance in our whole program with Rocket Bonehead's advice, I would like to credit him with a very successfull year for us. You gonna come up for the MLRA even on July 3rd?

[LM23]

Our guy here is an ex-NHRA regional tech official. But so many times I have seen even things like having the wrong tires be overlooked, yet they will search out for hours to make sure the correct mufflers are inside the collectors.

--- I grew up outside Rolla area, been here (DFW) about 20 years now. Went to MCS last year while there on a visit. Seemed like a nice track, but I did hear later that there were some problems.

[WestlingRacing]

Yea MCS is having legal difficulties, and an owner that has some problems communicating in a professional manner. I'll leave it at that. The track is up for sale, Great location, decent track, but I'd lengthen it a bit.

And Lizzard
I think all them Bmod drivers bought Latemodels, LOL
We'll be there on the 3rd. Havent been there since before they paved it, then put the dirt back down. The only reason we may not make it we are running Belleville KS. on Sunday, if we break we will not make it to Moberly. What's the car look like this year? I changed my # to 7w after being 87 for like 15 years. Never liked the # anyway and several people mistake me for someone else. So it was time.