brinn troubles?

[mbaker76]

anybody else having trouble with burning up clutches in their Brinn using ATF?

We had ours rebuilt and switched from oil to ATF based on reccomendations from others and even from Brinn 3-4 months ago. After 6 nights the clutches were just completely smoked. Changed out clutches ran 1 night and same thing burning again. Called Brinn about it and he said that they have been having trouble with ATF lately, that he thinks the manufacturers have changed something in the formula and its not working. He reccomended going back to engine oil and he thought that would fix the problem.

He said they were using Valvoline 20w50 racing oil in their shop but any good 20w50 engine oil should be fine. They are doing some testing with Mobil1 to see if it was going to work out. We were using valvoine Dexron 3 ATF and he was going to report it to the engineers and let them know we were hacing trouble with it.

just thought i would pass this along, see if anybody else had noticed anything.......

[LM23]

We have always used ATF, but the stock that I am still working from is old, as in at least 5 years or more. I had always heard that synthetic oils like Mobil1 were to slick for the clutches, but that just may be one of those wives tale things.

[mbaker76]

This is all something that has happened pretty recently i think. 3-4 months ago i called them and they were still saying 20w50 OR Dexron 3 was ok. Now right away when i told him the problem he mentioned they were having trouble with ATF and to switch back to oil. Maybe not all ATF, but it was a noted problem.

He said they were still testing Mobil1 but he acted like there were indications that it would be ok, but they hadnt actually approved it yet. So for the time being they are still using and now only reccomending Valvoline racing 20w50 or any good conventional engine oil.

[LM23]

I am putting new clutches and so forth in one right now, with any luck (rain staying away) we will be racing it Sat night. It will have Valvoline ATF - Dexron 3 style in from the old stock. I will post how it does.

[billetbirdcage]

Does yours have 1 or 2 fiber disks or any at all? and the rest metallic disc?

If it has fiber disks are those the ones that are burning up?

[mbaker76]

im not sure i didnt take it apart...all i know is he said the 2 outer discs looked like new and the inner ones were black.

After getting it back over the winter we put ATF in it and ran it, then after 2 nights we changed it and I remember thinking at the time the fluid didnt seem right, I expected to drain it after only 2 nights and still be red. Instead it looked like dirty engine oil, it never got any better and after 6 nights the clutches were gone. He put new clutches in and we ran it one night and drained it and its the same thing. thats when I decided to call Brinn and see what they thought about it.

[billetbirdcage]

The outer disks are the fiber ones, they are usually the first ones to burn up as they won't take alot of heat. I talked to Herb Brinn about it and he said to eliminate one or both of the fiber disk to the metallic ones. However one of the fiber disks runs against an aluminum pressure plate that is on one of the drums, I was worried about it eating up the aluminum plate so I didn't use the metallic one there. I though Herb told me they were not using fiber disks in the trans now, but that was several years ago.

That is strange that it burnt up the metallic ones and the fiber ones were OK? I have never seen one not burn up the fiber ones if the clutch is wasted, but I haven't take a ton of them apart either.

[bizkit]

I put mobli 1 30wt in and I'll change it again before the first race of 2008

[mbaker76]

just to back up Bizkit.....
The guy I talked to (Jack) said they had been doing some testing with Mobil1 and at this point it looked like it was going to be ok but they werent going to reccomend it yet.....

When we used to run oil, when we would drain it the plug would be covered with shavings, then we went to the ATF and hardly anything on the plug, so we thought we were being easy on the discs but then 6 nights later its toast. I know Jack said that he thought some of the ATF manufacturers had changed their formula and evidently some additive or friction modifier they are using doesnt agree with the Brinn clutch disc now. You could tell this isnt the first time he's heard this lately.

[pinionangle]

straight 50 weight here and I change it every week. I havent had any probelms with either of my units...


Good luck and let us know.

[Dirtaddiction]

My Brinn is 5 seasons old. I have only replaced clutches 1 time and that was in the offseason. The only reason I replaced them is I figured they were due. Tranny has had 20/50 Kendal since it was new. When I rebuid them for people thats what I soak the discs in and tell them to run..

[LM23]

Change in plans here, I have a new one in stock that we will put in the car (modified) and I will use Valvoline 20-50 racing oil in it.

[mbaker76]

LM23,
Can I ask why the change....did you find more info on the ATF deal?

[LM23]

With our work schedule right now it was easier to put the new one in and do a rebuild on the other at a later time.

[mbaker76]

Let me know if you find anything about the ATF at a later date.....

I think we are gong to check out our clutch master cylinder and make sure its working right and then make a switch back to oil. I know its not the best thing to switch fluid types but i think we are going to have to change clutches again soon anyway.

With a master cylinder, what are the chances that it bleeds off pressure and that causes the clutch to slip. What Im thinking is either it doesnt make enough pressure to start with and even though it locks them up enough to move it doesnt hold tight....OR the initial pressure is ok, but it doesnt hold presure and it bleeds off and so by the time you leave the pit stall and get to the line up it starts to slip.

[billetbirdcage]

Let me know if you find anything about the ATF at a later date.....

I think we are gong to check out our clutch master cylinder and make sure its working right and then make a switch back to oil. I know its not the best thing to switch fluid types but i think we are going to have to change clutches again soon anyway.

With a master cylinder, what are the chances that it bleeds off pressure and that causes the clutch to slip. What Im thinking is either it doesnt make enough pressure to start with and even though it locks them up enough to move it doesnt hold tight....OR the initial pressure is ok, but it doesnt hold presure and it bleeds off and so by the time you leave the pit stall and get to the line up it starts to slip.



Make sure you have a 3/4" MC for the clutch, that will create more pressure will less petal effort to lock the clutch up and not slip will cruising around in low gear. That is also what they used to recommend for the size.

[mbaker76]

yep its 3/4.... got a rebuild kit coming, and i plan to check pressure before and after the rebuild to see it that points in the right direction or not.

[Chris Steele]

We had a Brinn back in 94, 95 & 96 and never had to have it rebuilt. We ran B&M Trick Shift like they recommended and changed it every 3-4 races. Now in our Bert, we use type F fluid and change it every week (we do this because it is cheap insurance, if there is a sign of troubles or a lot of metal on the magnetic plug, we might catch it before it destroys the tranny...type F is about $2.00 per quart so that is why I say cheap insurance). This is the second season on the Bert with Zero problems.

[11m]

I know this thread was posted some time ago but thought I'd add this info I got from Brinn. I was told to run Mobil1 Extended Performance 15W-50 from the guy I talked to at Brinn. He said it was the only thing they were recommending at this time. This was about 2 months ago.

I too had called because I had a lot of metal on my drain plug using Trick Shift and Hot Shift. I've been using the Mobil1 Extended Performanc and changing it after every race to monitor clutch wear and have found very little metal on my plug. Also, the oil that comes out looks still looks fresh. This is with the Pro Series transmission.

The Mobil1 Extended Performance has a gold cap. Also, on the back it says it can be used in conjunction with racing, etc. Could this be the old Mobil1 formula? Has anyone noticed this?

[racin29]

just so you know the formula has changed, you can no longer get dextron 3 if you notice all of the new bottles should say dexron with out the t or just dex, GM made a deal with everyone that if they gave up the exact formula for dextron 3 then GM would give them the formula to DEX VI, the new dex 3 is still ok for regular cars but anything put under extreme conditions needs to have the DEX VI in it, i dont know if it would be ok in a brinn or not, just telling the facts

[dirtmod]

Type F has the least slip additives of all the tranny fluids, that is all I use in my Falcon with no problems. My thinking is I do not want the discs to slip anymore than they have to.